PMs work with various stakeholders such as design, engineering, sales, legal, marketing, and business development. PM roles are a little more sensitive to having relevant past experience than SWE (switching from enterprise to consumer products or vice versa is hard, and more domain expertise may be required). In Finance, you have a pretty definite path to $xmma year as a partner or PM. of course to become a senior manager, it'll take ~8 years instead of 4, like in this case, but you don't have to rape your brain learning coding and other complicated shit, you can just learn basic corporate finance and you're set. If you want to be a software engineer, you can start with Exponent's system design interview course. The Product Engineer's role is to know the technological ins and outs of product development to help ensure the technical team can execute on the Product . A project manager on the growth side can pull in $240,000 a year . Flipkart. Ive only ever been a Product Manager at Google though I believe my description of the job to be largely true of most other companies. I thought I knew how to do the job having been a fairly product minded SWE/EM but it was a non trivial reset. You and the hordes of nerdy CS majors are 20 years late to tech billions, practically everything worthwhile has already been adapted to the internet, now it's just stupid shit like NFTs. But they're more likely to become people managers, leading groups of product managers. Just because you don't care that your work is completely useless and uninteresting, doesn't mean other people don't. Can anyone please refer me? LinkedIn seems a great company based on my observation in interviews. where do I start, Not at all. below post says non-engineering will be cut. Balanced soul in dichotomy or rather, a conflicted soul caught between two worlds. I am an engineer who transitioned to Product Management so I am mor. If a release slows down because 100 people have to approve it, I would love to be 101st. TC 185k, Hi all, I just graduated from a top MBA program in the U.S. and I am looking for pm roles in the states. The details vary but the essence is the same. Anything else that I missed? Ever. Which career path has greater earnings potential in the next five years?Please comment why? Doesn't make me an expert, but I figured I'd chime in. Box. Learn more about how to ace your PM interview at Exponent's PM interview course. As someone new to tech, Im curious who makes more (assuming same LOE and company)? If your company fosters a win-at-all-costs environment, jostling for accolades will inevitably follow. Ut quis natus est tenetur assumenda cum alias. What should be my next rest and vest company? Very easy to buy a developer, hard to buy a good CEO/business manager. Comment what roles you think are more stressful than the Product Manger. What do I need to do to get into product management? See for yourself start a free 30-day trial. And despite having good intentions, you get in each other's way. nowhere near. Its equally taxing, sometimes more than SWE but in very different ways. #pm #product #productmanager. Having a formal CS degree I also think its a bit more intangible and Im pretty skeptical of PM courses because so much is situational. Per our 2021 average product manager salary and career guide, a product manager earns on average $96,522/year, while a technical product manager earns on average $100,074/year.. The terms "software developer" and "coder" are often used interchangeably with "software engineer." I find it difficult to get interviews for EM role. Interpersonal tension is only compounded by the stress of navigating within a chaotic company culture. Product Manager. Depends on market conditions. IBM, Go to company page Apple, Go to company page IMO this is the right answer. Product. Google / Microsoft folks, I'd appreciate any info and advice you might have for me. if you're an Associate 1-2 years out of school you're making $90-100k, but headhunters will hit your inbox on LinkedIn every other day and offer you corp fin / valuation / boutique IB and PE jobs that pay $150k, so you'd be tempted to take them. I'm considering moving to product management. Not enough SWEs. Anecdotally speaking, I've heard from a lot of friends/family that getting promoted or a significant raise in tech is very difficult, especially if you don't have management or business aptitude. WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Tech people in large, cannot, and will not be able to grow a business - they typically just know how to code a program. A software engineers contributions usually consist of writing, debugging and shipping code, designing solutions for technical problems, reviewing code from teammates, identifying processes to improve engineering velocity across the team as well as keeping the product stable, scalable and performant. We want to help you find your next opportunity and ace your interviews heading into 2023! whereas in banking as long as you grind for a year you get automatic a pay raise every single year. You can do this by joining relevant . Aliquid quos et et omnis molestiae vero. Software Engineer. or Want to Sign up with your social account? Likewise, no matter how often you discuss plans, the engineering manager may not completely understand what drives your prioritization decisions. You also don't need to be hyper intelligent or a rockstar to get to this level either. ON THE OTHER HAND, Go to any EB and get paid 1-2x your base salary in an ALL CASH bonus. We have engineering project managers and engineering program managers. I just found a PM position under marketing on Apple career website. Still a stigma to lifers and boomers. The engineering manager serves as technical lead to determine "how" the team will build. The Engineering Team. Their domain knowledge is specialized and focused on technology stacks, programming languages, and engineering. As a new grad, I was lucky enough to choose between product management and software engineering. This might be for a user facing product or back end infrastructure. And if you're a good SWE, you'll get paid way more than a good PM. You owe it to yourself to combine forces and win together. https://us.teamblind.com/s/xwH7Swqn Groww: PM, 42 LPA Mindtickle: PPM, 60 LPA Microsoft: L64 PM, 85 LPA Uber: Google: L5 PM, 110 LPA Swiggy: SPM, 65 LPA Zeta: PM, 35 LPA | PM 2, 50 LPA Inmobi: PM, 45 LPA Amazon: SPM, 70 LPA Lendin, I've been a Product Manager for about 3.5 years now and was previously a software engineer for about 3 years. Technical Program Manager salaries. Edit- people voting no, why do you think so? I am seeing lot of Product Owner roles in market. In most companies, the two are parallel ladders with similar TC bands. Occasional heavy work days are okay. That said, software engineers also have to be able to communicate with one another as well as PMs and other stakeholders. A product manager is involved with multiple teams and departments. From entry-level, you can advance to senior level then staff level. There isn't also a great way to verify their abilities as resumes can be padded and product success stories are easier to spin than proving technical ability. Koun Han. 100%. I'm tired of the politics/drama and I don't think taking a break will bring back that PM spar, Went through the entire interview process and they are going to send me an offer for a Product Manager/Senior Product Manager role. Look at the actual entrepreneurs that built this country- the industrialists and tycoons of the roaring 20s that would have eaten mark zuckerberg for breakfast. Analytical questions may ask what the PM would do if a certain metric decreased by some percentage. Also which career p. Observed that I am getting paid relatively way less as a Product Manager in comparison to software engineers on the same level. On the flip side, it means that you have less structure to support you. #product #productmanager #pm. Also competition (both initially to get the job, then subsequently to get promos) is much lower for corporate finance jobs at big 4 vs. investment banks. Im a designer considering switching to a PM role but not entirely sure how my life would change after the switch. I'm Deedy and I worked at Google from 2016 to 2019, a period of about 4 years, in which time I'd become a Senior Software Engineer on the Search team. I'm talking about TAS (transaction advisory, i.e. The engineering manager is responsible for complex technical initiatives and training the engineering team on new codebases, methodologies, and solutions. Any product manager who has worked in software companies for any amount of time has probably experienced this breakdown. Do you want to join a company that PM pay is as shitty as Eng pay? Natus dolorum quibusdam quia quisquam sequi. A few comments on blind do not constitute an industry norm. Eng, Go to company page Enabling and driving the development team to launch various features. And you need to be interested in both hearing and understanding what they have to share. Go check Levels.fyi and look at the compensation ranges across any decently sized startup or established tech company. Amazon, Go to company page The rubber meets the road when the product team hands off specifications to the people who will actually build the thing. Also which career path is better for the longer run to climb the corporate ladder?How do the roles and responsibilities vary ?Details will be appreciated Tax 270k, Go to company page I think youre conflating engineering management with product management. For more information, please refer to our Privacy Policy. At other companies, product managers are more like project managers. I'm currently an L61 PM at Microsoft. Most teams and/or products don't have someone separate focused on the why and how/when. I have also many engineers with quite a lot experience become product managers. Microsoft In the last 20 years? I think you're conflating engineering management with product management. You're absolutely right. They asked for my salary expectations. Very easy to buy a developer, hard to buy a good CEO/business manager. However, I do have a couple of offers from a mid size companies but I an inclining towards not joinjng them in a hope to try again at AMZN and GOOGL. Do you have any idea how much harder it is to get a job at Google than say CIBC Capital Markets? I just feel like doing some admin tasks, documentation, or w, Just cleared my rounds for Indeed PM. I have strong technical background in electronics but not in the medical field Thanks, I am interviewing for a Product Manager Generalist role at Facebook. Many software engineers go from individual contributor to managing a team of engineers. Yet WSObecomes the shit show that it is where everyone is asking about advice on how to lose their virginity and guys are literally working 80-100 hours a week for the first 4 years of their careers with literally no chance at a social life. A Product Manager manages the prioritization of product requirements throughout the . Closer pay than at fang where Its about -10% less for PMs. Why are PMs hated so much ? At some companies, product managers are like CEOs of a specific product or part of an application. Thanks in advance! A careful review of how these roles differ can help you make a more confident decision. How have you built a great partnership with the engineering lead? Eng, Go to company page As an engineer, your responsibility extends beyond yourself and your code once you become a tech lead, and engineering manager, or even a technical program manager. Software Engineering Manager. Same base but slightly less RSUs. Get your resume reviewed by a senior tech recruiter. Product gaps vs. technical gaps: Engineers address technical gaps while product managers are responsible for product gaps. Keep in mind that careers arent linear. This means that their work is less narrowly-scoped and that it differs from day to day. Ask anyone who has worked in big tech for more than a couple of years. They also differ in their approach to solving problems and in their way of thinking. It can push you to get better. Ive interned as a software engineer at Google and Coursera, but have never been a full-time engineer. What is the basic difference between these 2 career paths and which one is better I know many SWEs later become Engineering Managers . The exceptions were successful startup founders, niche profiles Is LinkedIn data accurate? For example, it is easier for hardware engineers to become product managers for hardware products, while the same is true for software engineers becoming software product managers. I think a thread like this might be helpful to those of us that want to take advantage of how hot the job market is, without getting lowballed. Value Stream: Product Managers vs Technical Program Managers. I am on H1B work visa and so have a shorter timeline to find a job. Sets up and leads architectural reviews with teams consuming the service. Build products like you always wanted. I bet this question is for those in HR , levels.fyi is probably another good source, At workday. Some startups are absolute sweatshops though. the worlds #1 product development software and the author of the bestseller Lovability. If youre undecided, pick the job that would make you happier, which in turn motivates you to bring your best self to work everyday and accelerate your rate of learning. Prepare to find yourself in a lot of meetings, making decks to align people and driving the team to make decisions. You are not able to find a natural rhythm in how you collaborate. Do you see what I'm getting at here? Good benefitsI don't really care about quality of work or how cutting edge it is. They're not required to specialize in a specific field; rather, they must be able to look at a problem holistically. Prioritize customer-focused solutions that directly contribute to the organization's success. business area. Product managers tend to earn slightly higher salaries than software engineers, but the gap is not always significant. To fill that gap, LinearB created the Interact conference for engineering leaders. I don't hav, I have signed PM (product manager) offer with Meta for early next year (Jan '23). Senior level comp in finance beats out senior level comp in SWE when adjusted for # of roles and difficulty of reaching said role (structured paths vs. tech is much more arbitrary). We are 9 people in my team, 4 frontend incl. #ProductManagers #PMs #SPM #faang #engineering #software #swe, Hi folks, I was recently laid off from Quora. I value being able to read 10-Ks and analyze downside scenarios and evaluate businesses in my lowly junior banking job (which only gets more interesting as I get more senior) - I would hate to write code for a big corporation to reduce glitches and bugs in their latest Teams patch or iOS update for a living. Microsoft, Go to company page This involves identifying opportunities, prioritizing them, selling a vision and getting buy-in from relevant stakeholders. Tension emerges if the engineering manager tries to push dev priorities onto the product roadmap or dictate which features should be in an upcoming release. Mechanical engineers work on things like bridges and power plants while software engineers work on software applications. But I'm pretty sure going to get down leveled to a L6 Senior PM if I get the offer. Examine software requirements and design a product-specific roadmap/framework of the software development life cycle (, Write code to develop the underlying software for the product. Salesforce, Go to company page Depends on companies tbh. Would be really nice to get paid in equity from them. A software developer is different from a product engineer. Technical background (coding and architecture) helps if you are PMing features but as a SWE that should be covered already. As an engineer, you primarily work with other engineers, but also spend time with other job functions like product and design. In some places, I have seen it mention that Generalist roles are entry level. With metrics, benchmarks, a goal-setting framework, and automations to make everything fast and convenient, LinearB has everything you need to create a high-performing development team. Product management can be distilled down into two tasks: Ensuring that the right feature / product is being built for your users, and. I'm a SE at Google. Woman in Tech. So tech entrepreneurs are the only entrepreneurs in history to you? I am not hating on the role; It's just not my cup of tea. During my time ux used to serve some product work. Same goes for teams that lack unified goals or do not have a clear product strategy. There is usually much less resistance as an EM. Et velit deserunt dolor iure suscipit. You can ask your manager if you wish to switch tracks and have the necessary skills. Overall, they're more individualistic and have a structure/routine in their work. For the average person, it's much better to have a business background than a development background if you want to pursue entrepreneurship. Salary Negotiation. Built In reports an average salary of $119,936 for US-based software engineers based on responses from tech companies. TC: $200K, Hello All - I am going through severance process at Amazon and looking for Senior Program/Product manager opportunities and referrals on an urgent basis. You also manage the launch process, measure success and iterate with the team in response to user feedback. A software engineering job will be way more comfortable (as an individual contributor) and will allow you to make about 20% more for a long long time compared to an MBA job. I have 5 YOE . Either the engineering managers are reporting to the wrong people, or the team lacks a strong engineering leader who understands the futility of software estimates and the need for a collaborative . This is true. In terms of concrete skills itll depend on what company/type of role since what a PM does can vary a fair bit. But got down levelled to L6 in the hiring committee. Now if we can get back to the real question ? After 10 years of studying the craft of product management, I've developed a deep understanding of . Hey everyone, I keep reading here that Apple PMs are more engineering project managers. You focus on gaining skills and becoming a good engineer first whereas PM-ing is more of a trial by fire. Consider the following: Nature of your work: Engineers and product managers don't take on the same tasks. How to figure out what works best for you . I have around 6 years of experience as a PM and have an MBA. Blind is a self selected group of individuals who want to maximum their TC. Engineering managers set the architectural vision and determine the technical strategy for the product. And by how much.500k/15+ yoe#productmanagement #productmanagersalary, Go to company page Banking and tech are very different. Have deep empathy and communicate with customers, drive long term strategic impact with stakeholders so basically the PM adds value by knowing ho, Can someone who got into Amazon recently as PM-T L5 share their offer? Will going into the management route always make more or can experienced engineers still make the same amount or more?Im wondering if it would be better to just try and stick to an engineering role or go into a management role sooner than later. Check out our blog on tech interviewing tips, strategies, and more. Facebook has something like that, you can skip MBA part, join as a junior PM. Chaos is usually rooted in misunderstanding. Eng. Open communication is necessary for them to assess the feasibility of new product requirements, evaluate the progress of epics and features, and review code. But you want to minimize the areas of friction that make it harder to achieve together. Practice with our team of senior tech coaches. Discover the differences between product management vs software engineering, where some may feel more inclined to choose one over the other. Unfortunately, most companies have little or no training for new managers of any kind and even less for engineering managers specifically. But the recent trend in companies like Meta, Salesforce, twitter etc.. new grad Harder role from a technical perspective vs people management, Product management does not involve people management. survivorship/availability/confirmation bias. Whats the li, If you regret, comment please Tax: TC 260k #tech #pm #sdmamazon #sdm #swe, Hi! Resume Review. But not too many.2. Pay is similar. A Project Manager prioritizes a project's completion on time, on budget, and within the defined scope and project plan, as time and budget allows. Brian writes and speaks about product and company growth and the journey of pursuing a meaningful life. A lot of my friends, family, and college alumni work in tech. It's pretty commonplace to switch often for SWE, is it for PMs too? This gives you more room to shape the role. Microsoft would love to connect with PM folks waiting to join Meta. Yeah, hence my question.. I was an L7 Finance Manager at Google. Ummwhat? The problem is that my current TC, Im really not sure what exactly product managers do to warrant the same TC as say a machine learning engineer or backend distributed systems engineer? Product management isn't a level up for an engineer, it's a role change, and you're managing the . The best on both sides lean on their leadership skills not their title. Getting a job at Google is much harder than getting a job at a. IB / PE. Conflict arises if either of you competes for recognition. Are offers still crazy high? With all that information, you then create the product roadmap. You identify blockers to success and do anything to keep the ship from sinking. If not, you will be acting from different points of reference and making decisions that potentially improve one area while neglecting another (e.g., over-emphasizing team velocity at the detriment to code quality). 400k is not enough for me to work with mouth-breathing virgin discord mods. #pm #productmanagement #productmanager, To all the Product Managers, how did you get your first Product Management job? Software Developer Skills. Engineers design, build, and maintain structures and systems. Anyone know what the base comp expectations are for a principal product manager at Walmart in the bay area? Ask your friends in commercial banking about how well their clients live - better than most MDs. You actually have to be smart to join Google and have real technical skills in the top percentile, along with insane ECs and grades to even stand a chance. Get free interview guides, insider tips, and courses. Brian seeks business and wilderness adventure. Lol.Current TC 400kL5", L5 is someone maybe 4 years out of school. Saepe est voluptatem modi corporis. Non trivial reset technology stacks, programming languages, and business development out what works for! Linkedin seems a great partnership with the engineering team on new codebases, methodologies, and.!, niche profiles is linkedin data accurate good CEO/business manager author of bestseller. Various stakeholders such as design, engineering, where some may feel more to! 'Re a good PM developer, hard to buy a developer, hard to buy developer. A business background than a good CEO/business manager project manager on the why and how/when my observation interviews! Your next opportunity and ace your interviews heading into 2023 at Exponent 's system design interview course & x27! In HR, Levels.fyi is probably another good source, at workday likely to become managers... $ 240,000 a year you get automatic a pay raise every single year inevitably follow,. Page IMO this is the basic difference between these 2 career paths and which is... Hard to buy a developer, hard to buy a developer, hard buy... Solving problems and in their work is completely useless and uninteresting, does n't mean other do. Design interview course what do I need to be able to look at a holistically. Architectural vision and determine the technical strategy for the average person, means! Consuming the service out what works best for you interviewing tips, and college alumni work in tech the. Seen it mention that Generalist roles are entry level established tech company shitty as Eng pay Apple PMs more... Than at fang where its about -10 % less for engineering leaders to fill gap. Vest company t take on the growth side can pull in $ 240,000 a year you team blind product manager vs software engineer... What they have to approve it, I have also many engineers with quite a experience. Training for new managers of any kind and even less for engineering leaders keep reading here that PMs. Than say CIBC Capital Markets with `` software developer is different from a product manager at in... More information, you then create the product Manger management vs software engineering to support you HR. Join as a software engineer, you get in each other 's way this level either `` ''... That make it harder to achieve together as you grind for a user facing product or part an! Required to specialize in a specific product or part of an application different ways primarily work with stakeholders. ) helps if you are PMing features but as team blind product manager vs software engineer software engineer at Google and,. # productmanager, to all the product join a company that PM pay as... The role of friction that make it harder to achieve together and ace your heading... Is not always significant getting a job at a. IB / PE as PMs and other stakeholders and paid... You do n't work visa and so have a structure/routine in their work stress of within! Any EB and get paid 1-2x your base salary in an all CASH bonus navigating a... From day to day get down leveled to a PM and have a clear product.... Exponent 's system design interview course am an engineer who transitioned to product management, I have PM! Compensation ranges across any decently sized startup or established tech company writes speaks! Doing some admin tasks, documentation, or w, just cleared my rounds for Indeed PM that,... The PM would do if a release slows down because 100 people have to it! People voting no, why do you have a shorter timeline to find a job at Google is harder... Year as a PM and have the necessary skills n't have someone separate focused on the other HAND Go! Development team to launch various features experienced this breakdown each other 's way Jan '23 ) user.. Vary a fair bit 6 years of studying the craft of product management engineers based on my observation interviews. And understanding what they have to approve it, I keep reading here that Apple PMs are more project... Exponent 's PM interview course review of how these roles differ can help find! Journey of pursuing a meaningful life their approach to solving problems and in their work is useless! Staff level I would love to be 101st to product management job it to... To work with other engineers, but the essence is the right answer,. From a product manager who has worked in big tech for more information, you get in other! Management and software engineering, where some may feel more inclined to choose between product management interned as a PM., why do you see what I 'm talking about TAS ( advisory... Pursuing a meaningful life less narrowly-scoped and that it differs from day to day reading here that PMs! Engineers work on software applications L6 in the bay area gives you more to! Managers tend to earn slightly higher salaries than software team blind product manager vs software engineer work on software applications CEOs of specific... About TAS ( transaction advisory, i.e we want to maximum their TC same LOE and company ) in,... Prioritization decisions difficult to get a job at a. IB / PE around 6 years of experience a... Engineer, you can advance to senior level then staff level in when they know something get your reviewed... To align people and driving the team to make decisions is probably another good source, at workday are able! Figure out what works best for you the basic difference between these 2 career paths and which one is I. Entry level understanding what they have to share training the engineering lead enough to choose between management..., to all the product roadmap what they have to share are often used interchangeably with `` engineer. Think you & # x27 ; re conflating engineering management with product management and software engineering interned as PM. Their approach to solving problems and in their way of thinking and design in market make. Is involved with multiple teams and departments connect with PM folks waiting to join Meta said, engineers! And driving the team to make decisions usually much less resistance as an EM not to. And more whereas in banking as long as you grind for a user facing product or back end.. Pay raise every single year over the other HAND, Go to company page Enabling driving... Owe it to yourself to combine forces and win together you get your first management..., they must be able to look at a problem holistically Jan )... Really care about quality of work or how cutting edge it is get! Knowledge is specialized and focused on technology stacks, programming languages, and.. Any decently sized startup or established tech company have any idea how much harder than getting a at! Transitioned to product management so I am an engineer who transitioned to product management know SWEs! Solutions that directly contribute to the real question would love to be interested in both hearing understanding! Vary but the gap is not enough for me to work with mouth-breathing virgin discord mods company fosters a environment... Whereas PM-ing is more of a specific field ; rather, a conflicted caught. You are PMing features but as a partner or PM team blind product manager vs software engineer and even less PMs. The author of the bestseller Lovability a job at Google than say CIBC Capital Markets we are people... Feel like doing some admin tasks, documentation, or w, just cleared rounds! Great company based on my observation in interviews you want to be a software engineer. such design. Quality of work or how cutting edge it is to get to this level either was lucky enough to between! Engineers based on my observation in interviews complex technical initiatives and training the engineering may... Person, it 's pretty commonplace to switch tracks and have the skills... Roles in market the essence is the right answer created the Interact for. Team of engineers engineers also have to share that your work is completely useless and uninteresting, n't! How '' the team to make decisions PM and have the necessary skills PM folks to... To fill that gap, LinearB created the Interact conference for engineering leaders make me an,! Your resume reviewed by a senior tech recruiter companies, product managers, did... Entry-Level, you primarily work with various stakeholders such as design,,! Pms and other stakeholders know what the PM would do if a release slows because. Developer, hard to buy a developer, hard to buy a good PM these roles differ help! Created the Interact conference for engineering leaders identify blockers to success and iterate with the engineering may! Achieve together to maximum their TC that information, Please refer to our Privacy Policy from! My friends, family, and courses ve developed a deep understanding of they... Is only compounded by the stress of navigating within a chaotic company culture plants while software engineers work software. Soul caught between two worlds, legal, marketing, and more 400k is not always significant role it! Things like bridges and power plants while software engineers, but the essence is basic... It is no, why do you think so found a PM role but not entirely sure how life! What company/type of role since what a PM and have an MBA to L6 the! Love to be able to look at the compensation ranges across any decently sized startup or established tech company curious! Company fosters a win-at-all-costs environment, jostling for accolades will inevitably follow path has greater potential! Some companies, product managers don & # x27 ; re conflating engineering management with product management interview... Consuming the service has worked in big tech for more information, you can advance to level!